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sorry but we need to gut this team

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  • #31
    when a 19yr old leads the team in ice time it's a huge sign that the team is in trouble (Provorov)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Mustard13 View Post
      Somebody pointed out on an earlier page that G doesn't seem to be playing with any passion. It's been that way since his contract. He is still an effective player, but he needs that snarl to be at the next level. Do you remember him dropping the gloves in the playoffs in '08 (I think anyway), or when he crushed Crosby in '12? I don't want him fighting all the time but he can certainly pick and choose his spots. If nothing else it will make him that much more unpredictable and open up some space for him.

      On a different note, we do have reason to be concerned about how this team is constructed. Why give long term lucrative contracts to forwards in their prime when you are clearly building your future through the blue line? Defenseman take longer to develop than forwards do so I find the idea of older forwards and young D incongruous at best.

      On a personal level I have always been lukewarm to 28 and 93. I'm not questioning their talent, I know the stats; I just don't care about them the way I did Brind'Amour, or Gagne, or even Richards. I'm not an advocate of tanking, but I think there is a difference between actual tanking and recognizing an ill fitting core. Rev may be right that Hextall is being overly cautious, however that is the direction he is choosing to go so the organization has to make the best of it, and it's my opinion that the best way to do that is to recognize the young D as the new core and dismantle our current group. It's actually a win, win because by all acounts these players are good guys and they deserve a chance to play for a championship while they can still contribute at a high level. I just don't see that happening here in Philadelphia.
      Funny you mention Richards. I was just thinking of him yesterday, and recalling how passionate he was, and the heart he displayed on the ice his first couple of years. He'd fight guys 5" taller and 40 lbs heavier, always took the body, and I remember him playing with two screwed up shoulders. He was the size of a Bobcat, with the heart of a Lion. Ironically, that's what ultimately what did him in (besides the alleged drug abuse), was that gladiator mentality.

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      • #33
        Ghost sure doesn't look ready this year; again he is young and extra time in the minors never hurts a players development.

        Morin is not ready now; his play has been good but not excellent consistantly.

        Hextall made it clear many times he will not put undue pressure on young players unless they are bursting at the seams and have the ability to take away the job from a regular NHL'er for an entire season and not an 8 game stint.

        There are a lot of passengers that are not likely to be here by the time Hextall has his players in place; patience is all that is required.

        I agree, Flyers are way too passive and need to get their mojo back...or add it to the lineup.

        At the end of the day streaks or not their record today is what I expected it to be before the season began (a bubble playoff team); anyone who thought they were going to blow the doors off this year and be climbing the Conference ladder was fooling themselves...patience and hopefully we will see this team blossom.

        Originally posted by Rev_Bully View Post

        It was there....but it was simply greeted with "Who cares, we're winning!!!"

        Folks were asking why Stolarz couldn't get play...folks were asking about line combos, about the reliance on questionable vets.

        Here's the truth....Gostisbehere was ready two years ago...and shouldn;t have waited until partway through last year to debut.

        Morin is ready now. Was ready when camp ended.

        The Flyers as an organization are not comfortable with relying on young players, atleast not in meaningful roles...they have a penchant for rolling the dice on young forwards because they are easy to hide..

        Provorov making the team had as much to do with they hype and the fear of alienating fan $$$ as it did his play....there were many pre-season games were he showed the flaws any young blueliner would...

        Look at the roster and ask yourself legitimately why each guy is here anmd what the upside is to having them...look at the recent signings by Hextalla nd the terms on some of them...

        You want an indicator of how long this club "suffers" it will be how the goalies are handled...

        A short term deal (1-2 years) for Mason is a good sign
        A short term deal for Neuvirth is better..
        Letting both walk is best...
        A long term deal for Mason (3+) is more of the same middle of the pack bubble team hockey think...

        An unwullingness to move out of the "vetersn" goalie comfort bubble will be a clear sign of how Hextall handle youth...

        Hakstol has not played to either his strengths or his roster's strengths...

        And it took how effing long to realize Konecny should be the playmaker/puck-distibutor on the 2nd PP...not Couturier?

        The Flyers lack the spark and the spunk that the top teams in the league have...not just the "speed' or the "playmaking" but the "aggression" and 'chip on the shoulder" they are a passive club..

        I'm tired of hearing about the win streak...how many other teams in the East, in the Metro did the same or better

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        • #34
          Originally posted by EDMFLYERSFAN View Post
          Ghost sure doesn't look ready this year; again he is young and extra time in the minors never hurts a players development.

          Morin is not ready now; his play has been good but not excellent consistantly.

          Hextall made it clear many times he will not put undue pressure on young players unless they are bursting at the seams and have the ability to take away the job from a regular NHL'er for an entire season and not an 8 game stint.

          There are a lot of passengers that are not likely to be here by the time Hextall has his players in place; patience is all that is required.

          I agree, Flyers are way too passive and need to get their mojo back...or add it to the lineup.

          At the end of the day streaks or not their record today is what I expected it to be before the season began (a bubble playoff team); anyone who thought they were going to blow the doors off this year and be climbing the Conference ladder was fooling themselves...patience and hopefully we will see this team blossom.


          Getting into the PO's last year was probably the worst thing that could have happened, even if we as fans enjoyed it..because it clearly put expectations for them to be back there when they have no way to actually make a run..its exactly like the sixers..year after year of playing just around playoff get in level tne get bumped out first round...none of the D we have (not kids) are regular NHLers...are you telling me Morin/Sanheim would really be any worse than Streit/Farmer/Manning/MDZ...would Stolie be any worse than Neuvy as a back up? patience is great and all when you have the ability to have itr..this team flat out is not good...streak or not...we will never know what we have in any of our young goalies unless we actually..you know..let them play

          why hang on to assets(not that i think anyone would want MDZ or Streit) if you can move them and help the supposed rebuild process(which it is not..its still a BS retool)

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          • #35
            heard Duchene was a last minute healthy scratch...hmmmmm.....

            Avs are going to want D men for him...and my guess is they would ask for Provo..and we say no...but i read that they are desperate on D and really have very little in their pipeline....

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            • #36
              Originally posted by flyerdog View Post
              heard Duchene was a last minute healthy scratch...hmmmmm.....

              Avs are going to want D men for him...and my guess is they would ask for Provo..and we say no...but i read that they are desperate on D and really have very little in their pipeline....
              I hope you are just speculating and that there isn't any smoke to this. Even if the Flyers were inclined to meet the Avs demands the salary cap implications alone makes this impractical. Secondly, Duchene isn't what the Flyers need. At best his addition would solidify a lower seed playoff spot and the ultimately lead to this team being last decade's Maple Leafs; too rich to be poor and too poor to be rich.

              I've become convinced the only real way to have sustained success in the cap era is to build from within. While Duchene is a quality player, I feel like this would be the type of knee jerk reaction trade that fans have excoriated Flyers' management for in the past. Patience is still the order of the day. Now, if Colorado wants to talk futures for Del Zotto, that's a different story; but they're worse off than Philadelphia, so I just don't see them as a natural trade partner.

              I have been been busier than normal and I haven't kept up with the league as closely as I usually do so I can't offer any alternative solutions other than to watch the injury reports and hope there is an NHL team out there that becomes desperate and gives the Flyers an opportunity to pull a Bradfordesque trade and over charge for an average rental at a premium position.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mustard13 View Post

                I hope you are just speculating and that there isn't any smoke to this. Even if the Flyers were inclined to meet the Avs demands the salary cap implications alone makes this impractical. Secondly, Duchene isn't what the Flyers need. At best his addition would solidify a lower seed playoff spot and the ultimately lead to this team being last decade's Maple Leafs; too rich to be poor and too poor to be rich.

                I've become convinced the only real way to have sustained success in the cap era is to build from within. While Duchene is a quality player, I feel like this would be the type of knee jerk reaction trade that fans have excoriated Flyers' management for in the past. Patience is still the order of the day. Now, if Colorado wants to talk futures for Del Zotto, that's a different story; but they're worse off than Philadelphia, so I just don't see them as a natural trade partner.

                I have been been busier than normal and I haven't kept up with the league as closely as I usually do so I can't offer any alternative solutions other than to watch the injury reports and hope there is an NHL team out there that becomes desperate and gives the Flyers an opportunity to pull a Bradfordesque trade and over charge for an average rental at a premium position.
                As a Vikings fan Bradford turned out to be much more than an average rental. Did the Eagles make a killing? Absolutely! But, Bradford, considering the line he had to play behind (kind of like having MacDonald and Streit on your defense) turned out to be a good acquisition for the Vikes too.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by alxhj View Post

                  As a Vikings fan Bradford turned out to be much more than an average rental. Did the Eagles make a killing? Absolutely! But, Bradford, considering the line he had to play behind (kind of like having MacDonald and Streit on your defense) turned out to be a good acquisition for the Vikes too.
                  Touché, he did play well given the circumstances, I was more referring to his career numbers overall. But you are right I didn't mean to imply he was the reason for their ultimately mediocre season.

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                  • #39
                    Just having a little fun Mustard. I think it's a case of both teams doing well in the deal, but giving up a #1 especially hurts. It was a good move initially, but unfortunately for Sam, he lost 3 starting lineman in one game, and as the saying goes, the rest is history. I gotta tell you though, Wentz is a beast!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Mustard13 View Post

                      I hope you are just speculating and that there isn't any smoke to this. Even if the Flyers were inclined to meet the Avs demands the salary cap implications alone makes this impractical. Secondly, Duchene isn't what the Flyers need. At best his addition would solidify a lower seed playoff spot and the ultimately lead to this team being last decade's Maple Leafs; too rich to be poor and too poor to be rich.

                      I've become convinced the only real way to have sustained success in the cap era is to build from within. While Duchene is a quality player, I feel like this would be the type of knee jerk reaction trade that fans have excoriated Flyers' management for in the past. Patience is still the order of the day. Now, if Colorado wants to talk futures for Del Zotto, that's a different story; but they're worse off than Philadelphia, so I just don't see them as a natural trade partner.

                      I have been been busier than normal and I haven't kept up with the league as closely as I usually do so I can't offer any alternative solutions other than to watch the injury reports and hope there is an NHL team out there that becomes desperate and gives the Flyers an opportunity to pull a Bradfordesque trade and over charge for an average rental at a premium position.
                      past the knee jerk trade situations...

                      Duchene would provide a young gifted forward who could grow with the nucleus of the team that Hexy is trying to build: Provo/TK/Ghost/Sanheim/Morin etc...I'd even add Simmonds to that list..as the Veteran leader...then if you trade away the core (Jake/G/Couts/Read/Raffl etc...) for picks..I'm saying I wouldn't be opposed to it...

                      i agree that patience is required but there are also realities like G being past his prime by the time we are ready to compete genuinely...

                      the consensus is that we need scoring depth, and a bonafide sniper...but again unless you are willing to sell the farm (and we've had enough of that!!)..that guy has to come from the draft..and usually at the top of the draft...the Ovechkin/Crosby/Stamkos/McDavids are not to be found in the middle of the first round...

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