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My Giroux/Top 6 Ramble

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  • My Giroux/Top 6 Ramble

    Just a curiosity thread more than anything...here's Claude for the last 4 seasons...
    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 28 58 86 7 46 7 37 0 0 7 1 223 12.6 52.9
    2014-2015 PHI 81 25 48 73 -3 36 14 37 0 0 4 2 279 9 56.6
    2015-2016 PHI 78 22 45 67 -8 53 6 27 1 2 5 2 241 9.1 57.47
    2016-2017 PHI 61 12 31 43 -18 34 5 24 0 0 2 2 151 7.9 55.76
    My position on Claude, is similar to what I thought about Richards, the Flyers miscast him, and squeezed a whole lot out of him in a few seasons..
    ..I think the physical play has taken a toll on him...and I think expectations are weighing him down...in much the same way they ate at Richards...

    The positive with Claude is that he doesn't carry a lot of the same off ice baggage that Richards did...

    The question becomes, can Claude transition further down lineup and can the Flyers find players to step up?

    Couturier, below, represents quite a bit of Giroux's defensive play....but little offensively...as Giroux potentially levels off, is there room for both of these players?
    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 13 26 39 1 45 0 3 1 5 2 0 165 7.9 47.75
    2014-2015 PHI 82 15 22 37 4 28 1 6 1 2 0 0 148 10.1 48.35
    2015-2016 PHI 63 11 28 39 8 30 2 7 0 1 1 0 119 9.2 48.6
    2016-2017 PHI 45 9 8 17 -7 22 0 2 0 1 1 0 82 11 54.56

    Schenn, below, represents quite abit more offense, and a lot less defense...

    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 20 21 41 0 54 4 9 0 0 6 1 178 11.2 43.21
    2014-2015 PHI 82 18 29 47 -5 34 7 19 0 0 6 1 156 11.5 46.74
    2015-2016 PHI 80 26 33 59 3 33 11 22 0 0 5 0 178 14.6 44.83
    2016-2017 PHI 58 19 21 40 -20 30 14 24 0 0 5 1 132 14.4 46.72

    On a team with difficulties finding the net, it's hard to want to move Schenn, on a team that needs playmakers, it's hard to want to move Giroux who's strong suit has been set-up.

    Couturier, is a top end 3rd line center with lots of years ahead of him...

    Can the Flyers find a way to make a top 6 out of pieces that include Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek and Schenn? Can the Flyers be happy with a 3C in Couturier instead of pushing him to be a 2C...and eventually reliving - on a smaller scale - the same questions that surrounded Richards and Giroux?


    If you can get a top 6 wing (like Simmonds or Jake when we traded Richards/Carter) and a high-end prospect/pick...does it make the most sense to move Giroux and reshuffle?

    The Flyers have pieces to play with..they just don;t seem very interested in trying to fit them together...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Rev_Bully View Post
    Just a curiosity thread more than anything...here's Claude for the last 4 seasons...
    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 28 58 86 7 46 7 37 0 0 7 1 223 12.6 52.9
    2014-2015 PHI 81 25 48 73 -3 36 14 37 0 0 4 2 279 9 56.6
    2015-2016 PHI 78 22 45 67 -8 53 6 27 1 2 5 2 241 9.1 57.47
    2016-2017 PHI 61 12 31 43 -18 34 5 24 0 0 2 2 151 7.9 55.76
    My position on Claude, is similar to what I thought about Richards, the Flyers miscast him, and squeezed a whole lot out of him in a few seasons..
    ..I think the physical play has taken a toll on him...and I think expectations are weighing him down...in much the same way they ate at Richards...

    The positive with Claude is that he doesn't carry a lot of the same off ice baggage that Richards did...

    The question becomes, can Claude transition further down lineup and can the Flyers find players to step up?

    Couturier, below, represents quite a bit of Giroux's defensive play....but little offensively...as Giroux potentially levels off, is there room for both of these players?
    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 13 26 39 1 45 0 3 1 5 2 0 165 7.9 47.75
    2014-2015 PHI 82 15 22 37 4 28 1 6 1 2 0 0 148 10.1 48.35
    2015-2016 PHI 63 11 28 39 8 30 2 7 0 1 1 0 119 9.2 48.6
    2016-2017 PHI 45 9 8 17 -7 22 0 2 0 1 1 0 82 11 54.56

    Schenn, below, represents quite abit more offense, and a lot less defense...

    TEAM GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
    2013-2014 PHI 82 20 21 41 0 54 4 9 0 0 6 1 178 11.2 43.21
    2014-2015 PHI 82 18 29 47 -5 34 7 19 0 0 6 1 156 11.5 46.74
    2015-2016 PHI 80 26 33 59 3 33 11 22 0 0 5 0 178 14.6 44.83
    2016-2017 PHI 58 19 21 40 -20 30 14 24 0 0 5 1 132 14.4 46.72

    On a team with difficulties finding the net, it's hard to want to move Schenn, on a team that needs playmakers, it's hard to want to move Giroux who's strong suit has been set-up.

    Couturier, is a top end 3rd line center with lots of years ahead of him...

    Can the Flyers find a way to make a top 6 out of pieces that include Giroux, Simmonds, Voracek and Schenn? Can the Flyers be happy with a 3C in Couturier instead of pushing him to be a 2C...and eventually reliving - on a smaller scale - the same questions that surrounded Richards and Giroux?


    If you can get a top 6 wing (like Simmonds or Jake when we traded Richards/Carter) and a high-end prospect/pick...does it make the most sense to move Giroux and reshuffle?

    The Flyers have pieces to play with..they just don;t seem very interested in trying to fit them together...
    no on Coots..they seem to want to press him into that #2 spot

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by M13 View Post

      no on Coots..they seem to want to press him into that #2 spot
      I wouldn't mind seeing something like: "Jake - Couturier - Giroux" or "Couturier - Giroux - Jake"

      If they're hellbent on making him top 6...give him the best possible experience...

      then give me something like Konecny/Cousins with Schenn and Simmonds...

      Comment


      • #4
        in a perfect world in my head..centers would be XXX-G-Coots

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by M13 View Post
          in a perfect world in my head..centers would be XXX-G-Coots
          Agreed..

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by M13 View Post
            in a perfect world in my head..centers would be XXX-G-Coots
            Yup to this too, at least as far as the heart goes. I would love to see G play out his contract here, and somehow transition down the lineup into a more defensive roll and PP specialist as he continues to age.

            Comment


            • #7
              Good analysis, Rev.

              My position on Claude, is similar to what I thought about Richards, the Flyers miscast him, and squeezed a whole lot out of him in a few seasons.
              Agree.

              I think the physical play has taken a toll on him...and I think expectations are weighing him down...in much the same way they ate at Richards.
              Looks that way. Giroux is playing a Jonathan Toews-type role on the Flyers, but his physical stature is not much bigger than Patrick Kane's. I wonder what G would be doing, with his great hands and crafty skating, in a more protected role as a second line center, or even a top line left wing.

              Couturier, is a top end 3rd line center with lots of years ahead of him.
              Yep, the 2nd line center experiment hasn't worked very well, but he'd bring a lot of value as a 3rd line center.

              Schenn represents quite abit more offense, and a lot less defense.
              I like Schenn's willingness to go to the net, and his ability to score greasy goals. But he's not much of a center and should be playing wing full time.

              The Flyers have pieces to play with..they just don't seem very interested in trying to fit them together.
              Yeah, this season has been really frustrating in that regard.

              G has to play the role that is clearly wearing him down because we don't have anyone remotely close to challenging him for the #1 center job.

              Schenn has been playing center and he isn't a very good one. He's a much better winger.

              The attempt to turn Couts into a 2nd line scoring center has failed, but he'd be valuable as a full time checking center.

              Don't get me started about the 4th line.

              I don't want to trade Claude, but with all the holes we have up front, I think Hexy has to listen if he gets a compelling offer.


              What would Fred do?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rev_Bully View Post
                reshuffle?

                The Flyers have pieces to play with..they just don;t seem very interested in trying to fit them together...
                Perhaps because, like me, they've already decided there is no fit and doing that is a colossal waste of time.
                New deck? Absolutely !
                I believe that's what Hextall wants to do......but finding takers for those contracts.......
                Agree on G. He's done. Beat up carrying a load he wasn't built to handle long-term. Some rest in the off-season might do him some good, but I think we've seen his better days. Biggest complaint with Jake is he doesn't seem to use the size he has with anything resembling consistency. Schenn is too streaky at this point in his career. Somewhat of a "tweener" in terms of forwards-his value is magnified more by what the Flyers LACK down low than what he actually brings to the table. Not awful.....but not what I hoped for or expected. People keep trying to make Cooter an NHL scorer. I've always seen him as QMJHL scorer-because while I like his instincts I hate his skates. Just like his dad. I'd honestly get rid of everybody but 4 or 5 of them (can't make up my mind on 1) if I could. The makings of the D we've heard so much about are on the horizon. Give them a chance in front of the depth we have in goal and let's see what we have.

                Philly can form an energy line out of players nobody wants. Guys who have risen to the level of solid 2-way non-scorers are in abundance for the checkers. It's the top-end talent that's departed. Nothing on the immediate horizon ripe enough to help, so the Ronster needs to channel his inner Keith Allen and carry out an extreme makeover in the next 6 months, because I'm running out of reasons to watch or care about this crap anymore. Not the Flyers I knew and loved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's an interesting piece from Dave Isaac. Seems to be suggesting G has been playing hurt all year (along with Ghost). Would explain a lot of things:
                  With Giroux finally healthy, Flyers could be a force


                  Dave Isaac , @davegisaac 6:47 p.m. ET March 4, 2017




                  The Flyers captain is showing signs of old after offseason surgery claimed a lot of his season.
                  (Photo: Rob Carr, Getty Images) 65 CONNECTTWEETLINKEDINCOMMENTEMAILMORE



                  WASHINGTON — There’s a look in the eye of his linemate that tells Wayne Simmonds whether it’s going to be a particularly good game.

                  “His eyes are kind of piercing,” Simmonds said recently. “It’s like he’s staring right through you like he’s going to eat you. When he has that look on his face he’s definitely in.”

                  He’s talking about Claude Giroux and that look hasn’t been around as much this season as it has in the past. Recently, that snarl has returned.

                  The Flyers captain is getting back to form — finally — after offseason abdomen and hip surgeries that took way longer to recover than he thought.

                  “It’s been a lot of work,” he said. “I think me and (Shayne Gostisbehere, who had the same surgeries on the same day) are kind of in the same boat. We’d been rehabbing together. This summer was my first summer not working out. I’m in really good hands with the medical staff here in Philly. We’re just looking to get better.”

                  Giroux had 12 goals and 33 assists in 63 games heading into Saturday’s tilt against the Washington Capitals, about a third less production in terms of points per game than two seasons ago. So, concerns that the 29-year-old center may already be on the back-9 of his career could be premature.

                  Somehow in October he had 12 points in 10 games. Call it adrenaline before recovery because in September, even though he was prepping to play for Team Canada in the World Cup of Hockey, he wasn’t close wo that he usually is at that time of year.

                  “Maybe I wasn’t ready to play in that World Cup, but I did the best I could,” Giroux said. “Playing with all those elite players, it’s only going to help me.”

                  Gostisbehere played in the World Cup also, for team North America, and while he admits his skating is better now than he did in October, he stopped short of saying that it was a byproduct of the surgery.

                  “If anything, I think it helped me,” the defenseman said. “I’m not in pain anymore, but it comes with the game, comes with the territory. Got to learn to battle through it.”

                  As the Flyers are amid a run for the playoffs, Giroux should be their biggest weapon. Problem is the rest of the NHL knows it. Especially on the road, he doesn’t get the favorable matchups he usually gets at Wells Fargo Center when the Flyers have the last line change.

                  In Sean Couturier and Pierre-Edouard Bellemare the Flyers have two defensive-minded centers, so that cuts out half the work for an opposing coach when he’s looking for matchups and it’s shown. Giroux has an even plus-minus at home and was minus-18 on the road coming into Saturday’s game.

                  The addition of Valtteri Filppula should help in that regard if he’s used properly. With Filppula in a scoring role and Jake Voracek on his line, that decision won’t be as easy for opposing coaches.

                  “You can’t be thinking of that kind of stuff too much,” Giroux warned, but still acknowledged, “I think teams will have to respect that he’s in the lineup.”

                  If they do, perhaps it frees up Giroux a little bit from top defense pairs and shutdown lines. And on the road, the Flyers could use any help they can get. Saturday is the first of a four-game road trip for the Flyers. They have nine road games out of 15 this month.

                  “Bluntly, the last month, month and a half has been tough for our team,” coach Dave Hakstol said. “He’s the guy who’s at the front of the line with the spotlight on him.

                  “I think he and his linemates have done a good job. That has to continue. The next challenge for him is on the road where we don’t control the matchups for him for who’s on the other side. You’ve got to find a way to beat that line.”

                  That looks like it has a good shot at happening with the snarl around. Recently, Giroux has had the strength to be outmuscling bigger opponents to pucks and springing teammates with an outlet pass all in what looks like one fluid motion.

                  Voracek recently said he thinks Giroux is “about to break through.” Add Voracek as part of the group that thinks the Flyers will go as far as Giroux takes them.

                  “I know him for a long time,” Voracek said. “I’ve played with him on the same line for four years combined. He's a gamechanger. Everybody knows that. Maybe the puck didn't go in for him as well as he would like to, or the points didn't rack up the same way as in the past. But like I said, he's the guy (you want) on the ice.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    it's not that hard to believe G and Ghost were not fully over their injuries heading into this season /World Cup..frankly i think there is just not enough time between end of season and training camp for guys to..rest..relax and get fully healthy again for another 82 game grind

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