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  • #41
    Originally posted by SweetAlabama View Post

    Pronger-Niedermaier 2007
    Lindstrom (home grown but 35 at that moment)-Rafalski 2008
    Gonchar 2009
    Sopel 2010
    Chara-Ference 2011
    Mitchell-Scuderi 2012
    Oduya 2013
    Mitchell 2014
    Oduya 2015
    None 2016

    All guys 30+. Sorry, but I do not see a team do it without those guys and I put them all in the category of elite defencemen. Big exception 2016 as Penguins overall were young if I recall correctly. Exception in my opinion could be 2010 as Sopel not elite but played 20+ minutes; others home grown, 2013, 2015 - same team. I really hope that we can repeat the Hawks and be finally lucky as the Hawks drafted exceptionally well over the last few decades. Could argue on eliteness of Mitchell as well but the guy was playing over 20 minutes on a second pair.
    However, I am a little more concerned and I may well exaggerate this point but I think you need a very good teacher on the ice beside you for the learning curve to be steep enough and that is missing for this team when Sam and possibly Robert will be up next year together with Ivan.
    Sorry guys but I wished to bring that back on the table.
    I certainly like what Provorov and Gostisbehere bring - they even got some votes in the first quarter of the season for Norris trophy candidate @NHL.com - but as I had written back in April, the team must have a true star veteran defenceman and maybe another of a mid-tier class.
    Sure, it is not like 1-2-3 that we can add them as we would like but I think we have to trade. Who and whether there is value and we would not destroy the forward nucleus, I do not know but I think the growth and development of those two plus Sanheim, Morin will likely be spoiled or rather they may well not reach the top ceiling that they certainly have inside.

    I liked reading a lot of different interviews Russian defencemen were doing in early 90s and 00s when they were coming across the pond and how veteran elite defencemen were helping them in a learning curve. Not all of those Russians were superstars but they exeled over time under such management. I remember an interview with Alexander Khavanov who referred to Pronger as his partner during the first season. The presence on and off the ice, poise, lessons - it all helped him extremely. Khavanov also mentioned, of course, by putting him with Pronger coaches wanted to minimize the mistakes Khavanov was making naturally as a rookie. In our situation the kind of veterans MacDonald, Gudas are making mistakes even more often. There are zero guys on defense to learn from. PERIOD. Sure, Pronger is one of a kind but I think it possible to find similar examples across the league.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by SweetAlabama

      Sorry guys but I wished to bring that back on the table.
      I certainly like what Provorov and Gostisbehere bring - they even got some votes in the first quarter of the season for Norris trophy candidate @NHL.com - but as I had written back in April, the team must have a true star veteran defenceman and maybe another of a mid-tier class.
      Sure, it is not like 1-2-3 that we can add them as we would like but I think we have to trade. Who and whether there is value and we would not destroy the forward nucleus, I do not know but I think the growth and development of those two plus Sanheim, Morin will likely be spoiled or rather they may well not reach the top ceiling that they certainly have inside.

      I liked reading a lot of different interviews Russian defencemen were doing in early 90s and 00s when they were coming across the pond and how veteran elite defencemen were helping them in a learning curve. Not all of those Russians were superstars but they exeled over time under such management. I remember an interview with Alexander Khavanov who referred to Pronger as his partner during the first season. The presence on and off the ice, poise, lessons - it all helped him extremely. Khavanov also mentioned, of course, by putting him with Pronger coaches wanted to minimize the mistakes Khavanov was making naturally as a rookie. In our situation the kind of veterans MacDonald, Gudas are making mistakes even more often. There are zero guys on defense to learn from. PERIOD. Sure, Pronger is one of a kind but I think it possible to find similar examples across the league.
      You don't get those guys as veterans without letting them play.

      Think Ott would like a do over on Chara? How about the Canes, Blues, Ducks Oiklrs on Pronger...

      Almost every guy you list is a "one that got away" for at least one club...that's not good.


      Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk


      Last edited by Rev_Bully; 11-22-2017, 07:07 PM.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Rev_Bully View Post
        You don't get those guys as veterans without letting them play.

        Think Ott would like a do over on Chara? How about the Canes, Blues, Ducks Oiklrs on Pronger...

        Almost every guy you list is a "one that got away" for at least one club...that's not good.


        Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

        Then I bet we will end up trading maybe even Provy or Ghost in either of the next two seasons as other teams with shitty defence and excellent youngsters ended up in history. Look - Islanders got shit on their defence in 1998-99 seasons which was the full debut season for Chara, in Hartford the situation was similar, only difference that in 1993-94, the debut season for Pronger, there was McCrimmon who helped a lot in development and if not for shitty defence in the next couple of years when McCrimmon already finished, then maybe it would Hartford/Canes all the way with Pronger.
        I do not see the youngsters develop on their own just from playing. Somebody needs to learn them from play. We do not even have a competent, NHL caliber coaching staff...

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