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  • #61
    The biggest problem with this line of thought is either a dman is a #1 or a bust..

    First thing, Morin never projected to a #1...not in the sense many here and elsewhere view a #1 anyway..

    Second, Provorov had a good year...but we're grading on one helluva curve to say he proved anything about his potential as a #1...and no, ice time is indicative of nothing unless you accept it for every dman as indication of #1 potential...and let's be honest were not gonna do that.. *coghMacDonaldcough*

    Third, Sanheim has as high a ceiling as Provorov...trading either of them (but not both) would fall in that 'move from a position of strength' situation.

    Fourth, the number 3 pick in the draft is going to have at least the same likelihood of success as Provorov, Sanheim or any of our top end prospects..not just Morin.

    The thing overlooked in all of this is that Morin is the unique prospect in our blueline mix...and a sought after and rare commodity in the NHL.

    Watching the Preds it's easy to spot similarities to what the Flyers blueline could/should be in a few years..but they lack one thing on that blueline..a hulking, physical.. smear you out defenseman..and that's what Morin is..he may not put offensively like a Pronger or Chara or Hatcher (but who would given the two-way talent in our young blueline) but he can change and control games physically the way those 3 did and if you've seen any juniors or AHL games...that is evident.

    The want to overlook what Morin brings to the table because he's different is a problem I hope the front office avoids.

    Trading Morin, even for a 3 is no different than trading Provorov or Sanheim when it comes to blueline impact...


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    • #62
      Really well said Anth. Morin's skill set is truly special and IF he can have it transition well into the NHL...you'll have a unique dman that other teams will have a terrible time matching up with.

      To me, trading up for the #3 should not include any of Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim, Morin or Myers. If we can get it done with other talent...let's see what that package is made up of.

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      • #63
        Agree to disagree. I appreciate Morin's skill set and think it would be a fantastic addition to the team. I'm not even saying they SHOULD trade him. (My general feeling is that we ought to wait to see how at least Morin, Sanheim, Myers, Provorov, and Ghost develop over the next two years before trading any of them absent getting back a can't turn down, young star forward).

        That said, I think there is a tremendous downplaying of the difference between Provorov and Morin here. The idea that trading Morin impacts the blue line the same way as trading Provorov really makes no sense to me.

        Morin hasn't even demonstrated he can be an effective NHL player.

        As I said you can argue Provorov hasn't proven he is or is going to be a #1. But with the ice time he played (yes, it matters that a 20 year old can play that much ice time as a rookie, carrying a weak partner, and not be totally worn down by seasons end), with the skill set and intelligence he displayed, and with his actual on-ice success, he absolutely has proven (to me) that he will be a solid NHL defenseman at minimum.

        So you have

        Player 1 (20* year old, at least solid NHL dman, with #1 upside)
        =
        Player 2 (22* year old, completely untested/unproven in NHL, with no absolute "floor" in the NHL, with #2/3 upside)

        * age based on start of next season.

        I don't see any universe in which losing Player 2 is as detrimental to the Flyers defense as losing Player 1.

        Of course you're correct that trading Provorov or Sanheim would also constitute trading from a position of strength, but that's clearly not where the analysis ends. The Oilers didn't trade McDavid because "that would be have been trading from a position of strength," they traded a lesser forward. There's no realistic trade I would make that included Provorov at this point, and Sanheim is pretty close behind in that regard.

        Finally, the #3 in the draft, IMO, will not have the same likelihood of success in the NHL as Provorov, because Provorov has proven, at a minimum, that he's an NHL player. It separates him from every other player in the discussion
        Last edited by ELab2; 06-08-2017, 10:04 AM.
        "Oh, We got five. Ohhhhh."

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        • #64
          So what I'm hearing is that the Flyers shouldn't trade Gudas for the #3 pick because we really need his toughness and physicality? He's pretty unique to this super soft d-core, is he not?

          Seriously though, I love Morin and what he brings, but the reality is he will translate into a mid-pairing guy at the NHL level. I don't care if he's 7'10" he is what he is (a stay at home physical d-man).

          No GM in his right mind passes an opportunity to draft a #1 center for a mid-pack d-man. If you need a pick-up truck, you still don't say no to the Porsche...Nashville has always had a good blue-line, but they never accomplished anything until they added to their forwards and a coach who could generate offence.

          I'm not advocating in trading any one guy, but this silly notion that Provy, Sanheim, Myers, Morin, Ghost and Hagg will all be our 6 d-men and playing together in 2 years is ridiculous. Hexy is moving at least one guy, maybe two. The only question is for who/what?

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          • #65
            I'm not suggesting I wouldn't trade Morin..I am saying I value him as much as I do Prov, Sanheim, Myers and Hagg..

            I think some folks are blinded by style.

            I don't disagree with you that you need the offensive parts..but I do believe they are more readily available than the D parts...

            I kinda expect Gost to be moved...and likely one of Hagg/Myers. The Dcore being Prov, Sanheim and Morin.

            And I'm willing to bet Pete would love to have Hatcher/Pronger level physical threat on the blueline in this series..

            Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Rev_Bully View Post
              I'm not suggesting I wouldn't trade Morin..I am saying I value him as much as I do Prov, Sanheim, Myers and Hagg..

              I think some folks are blinded by style.

              I don't disagree with you that you need the offensive parts..but I do believe they are more readily available than the D parts...

              I kinda expect Gost to be moved...and likely one of Hagg/Myers. The Dcore being Prov, Sanheim and Morin.

              And I'm willing to bet Pete would love to have Hatcher/Pronger level physical threat on the blueline in this series..

              Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
              I think Myers stays. I believe he's the only RHD out of the group (plus he's got the size AND skill to go with it).

              If I had to "guess", I think Provy, Sanheim and Myers are viewed as the top 3 in organization. I think Morin, Ghost and Hagg are the bottom 3....JMHO

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              • #67
                I have a feeling the FO is quietly REALLY worried about Myers' concussion history. That puts Morin in his spot. Top 3 guys would be Prov, Sanheim, Morin.

                I hope Myers is healthy for the rest of his life and he can play in the NHL for us as a legit #1 #2

                One nasty hit and he might never play the same again.
                .
                .
                "Perry the Platypus! I swear, of all the aquatic mammals I hang with, you are TRULY the most uncooperative!" - Dr. Doofenshmirtz

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Hattrix View Post
                  I have a feeling the FO is quietly REALLY worried about Myers' concussion history. That puts Morin in his spot. Top 3 guys would be Prov, Sanheim, Morin.

                  I hope Myers is healthy for the rest of his life and he can play in the NHL for us as a legit #1 #2

                  One nasty hit and he might never play the same again.
                  It's the Flyers medical staff we are talking about....everyone is good for 5+ concussions. After that they begin to worry....LOL

                  It would be a shame if concussions curtailed his career. The kid has star potential...really gifted.

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                  • #69
                    LMAO.... 5+ good one!
                    .
                    .
                    "Perry the Platypus! I swear, of all the aquatic mammals I hang with, you are TRULY the most uncooperative!" - Dr. Doofenshmirtz

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hexy's Axe View Post
                      ... The kid has star potential...really gifted.
                      I know. He's got it all, but I'm most worried about his play with the puck. Like Lindros, isn't he physically so much bigger and stronger than most in his league? His last concussion was by a MUCH smaller player and he had his head down, like Lindros.

                      If he doesn't fix that now, NHL players will destroy him before December.
                      .
                      .
                      "Perry the Platypus! I swear, of all the aquatic mammals I hang with, you are TRULY the most uncooperative!" - Dr. Doofenshmirtz

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