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  • #41
    Originally posted by MontanaFlyer View Post
    So we should be the Islanders? Remember Chara.....Not saying Morin will be Chara but D take a long time to develop...Bigger D men even longer. I think if it wasnt for so many good young Dmen he would already be on the team. Hell if he wasnt hurt he would be on the team right now. We FINALLY have some good D prospects. Nearly my entire life I have waited for the Flyers to have more than 1 or 2 decent Dmen. The last one I was really exited for was Pitkanen! We have the potential for 4-5 very good young Dmen all in their primes. Once they are established we can trade one of them for proven forward talent.

    Hell even the forwards seem pretty decent right now. We do really need 1 or 2 forward prospects to step it up as we are very limited there IMO however on the big club things look pretty good. Now if we can get a good goalie in his prime or about to be in his prime I say move ANY of the young D guys except maybe Ghost. However I would move Ghost for the right goalie! (obviously Provorov is totally untouchable)
    Good point about Chara, he was very ordinary his first couple of years.

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    • #42
      The giant difference between Chara and Morin is? Chara was playing in the NHL in his Draft+1 year while Morin has only played 1 game in his Draft+5 year. 5 years in Chara had played 300+ games for comparison. Yes big D take longer to develop but after 5 years post draft it's pretty hard to find examples of guys who have made big impacts in the NHL (big or small). I think he will be a good guy to have on a team in a shutdown roll, but I don't think he will ever be 40-50pts player Chara became. Can anyone name the last time Sam scored 40 points on any team?

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Vedder View Post
        Can anyone name the last time Sam scored 40 points on any team?
        He scored 32 in 38 games with Rimouski. That's pretty solid.

        That said, I don't expect him to become more than a 5-6, maybe second pair in a complementary role. I don't see his offense growing to something like a Chara.

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        • #44
          But we don't need him to be a 40-50 point guy.
          He needs to be impossible to play against, intimidating physically, and make smart decisions with the puck. 8g 20a and +20 would be awesome....and be a great 3/4
          .
          .
          "Perry the Platypus! I swear, of all the aquatic mammals I hang with, you are TRULY the most uncooperative!" - Dr. Doofenshmirtz

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Hattrix View Post
            But we don't need him to be a 40-50 point guy.
            He needs to be impossible to play against, intimidating physically, and make smart decisions with the puck. 8g 20a and +20 would be awesome....and be a great 3/4
            Agreed- I just wanted to point out how silly the Chara comparisons were. If Morin can turn into a 25pts solid second pairing guy who can support one of our more offensive dmen that would be wonderful. If we can trade him for young top 6 forward though, that would also be awesome.

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            • #46
              But Vedder...the truth is that the only reason he didn't make it out of camp this season (or even last season) is due to the organization's fear of going too young too fast. They opened 2 spots this season and were not going to budge on that (no matter how bad some of the guys who made the team were). The same can be said of the roster last season...when it was clear that Provorov was making the team, Hexy was shaking in his boots at the possibility that he might have Provorov, Ghost and Sam in the lineup...the issue here is not IF Sam is an NHL player (he is)...its fitting him in with the preconceived fears that already exist in the old school thinking being used here. The NHL is going through a youth revolution...we all see it. Its time to stop with the "a young defence can't win" thinking. If your young players are better than your older players, plain and simple, you will have a better chance at winning. And on top of that, the experience gained by the kids who WILL go through hard times will be invaluable for their future growth.

              Don't compare Sam to Chara...i agree. But don't pretend that he's not worthy of being on our blue line...he IS.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by lynchmob450 View Post
                But Vedder...the truth is that the only reason he didn't make it out of camp this season (or even last season) is due to the organization's fear of going too young too fast. They opened 2 spots this season and were not going to budge on that (no matter how bad some of the guys who made the team were). The same can be said of the roster last season...when it was clear that Provorov was making the team, Hexy was shaking in his boots at the possibility that he might have Provorov, Ghost and Sam in the lineup...the issue here is not IF Sam is an NHL player (he is)...its fitting him in with the preconceived fears that already exist in the old school thinking being used here. The NHL is going through a youth revolution...we all see it. Its time to stop with the "a young defence can't win" thinking. If your young players are better than your older players, plain and simple, you will have a better chance at winning. And on top of that, the experience gained by the kids who WILL go through hard times will be invaluable for their future growth.
                Well that's more speculation than fact. The reality is who do you sit out of the top 6 at the start of the season? Provorov, Ghost, MacD and Gudas are full locks. That leaves Sanheim and Hagg. A case could be made for him over Hagg or a time share and sit Manning as an eighth?

                He got his chance but bad luck had him injured at the same time our D were injured. I think right now with our current crew on D (if all healthy) it's hard to find a fit for him without benching another rookie.

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                • #48
                  I don't think I'd be inclined toward any trade in the near future with the status of this squad currently, where/when I see them looking to improve, and how I could live with being only a bubble team this year despite my basically lifetime (upper 40s) of frustration. However, I think I could accept moving Sanheim if it were in a situation to bring back an offer-you-can't-refuse return for a forward or goalie position of need.

                  In considering the depth of the young-ish & future defensemen, as well as their strength and expectations, I see them thusly:
                  * Provorov -- all-around plus in all areas stud #1;
                  * Gostisbehere -- top-level offensive contributor whose offense more than makes up for any defensive shortcomings if they never resolve perfectly;
                  * Hägg -- a decent, plain, simple move-around-spots-as-needed to cover injuries, but otherwise an above-average #6/7;
                  * Morin -- a significantly better mobility Hal Gill, needed nastiness, and who I think can make good 12-18' passes to spring a transition (all of which I'm fine with if that's the most he ever brings; the Pronger & Chara comparisons have always annoyed me as being way too unrealistic);
                  * Gudas -- for this squad, easily a "veteran" as well as an intimidating factor who makes opposing forwards keep their heads up (once his reputation might exceed his contribution, then a potential trade asset);
                  and, leaving,
                  * Sanheim & Myers -- both big (6'5") very mobile with abilities to positively join the rush, if not lead it.
                  * {* and, bonus, for some reason, in admittedly limited viewing, Friedman has reminded me a little of a young Kasparaitis ... a mobile, not especially big but solid-as-as-a-fire hydrant, defenseman that can ring somebody's bell and get under another team's skin, but has some extensive learning to do for the pro game to maximize playing within his limits & pick his spots ... ... oh, and I used to get so pissed watching games where Gill or Kasparaitis were at their best on the ice for the other team frustrating Flyers forwards!)

                  So I'm stuck on thinking of one of the last two of Sanheim or Myers as being the easiest to lose in a trade to fill a different need, because giving up only one of them still leaves the other. Not that it wouldn't be a potential gamble with either if trading them: Myers trade value might be at its lowest right now being in only his first year as a pro and his recent injuries, so I wouldn't expect to see him as a centerpiece in a blockbuster deal. But if you wanted to gamble, I could see offering Sanheim as a centerpiece in, e.g., a deal for Puljujärvi (where there'd also be gamble of how much are you giving away for a player that might or might not live up to projections as a "home run" huge, fast & skilled forward). Of course, continuing with that example, waiting to see how Sanheim and Myers development fully plays out could backfire if Puljujärvi were to put it all together and become a stud.

                  But I think I'm still patient enough with this team -- and actually thinking it a little ahead of where I thought they would be by this season -- that I don't think I'd pursue any deal right now for any of them unless it so overwhelmingly blew me away. Were such a deal to come along, in viewing the roles I think I'd be most willing to part with Sanheim solely because I think he'd be the most likely to return a windfall/blue chip with the least chance of creating another hole to fill.

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                  • #49
                    We still need young blue chip offensive talent. I'd be looking to trade a package of prospects up for a higher quality prospect. We're really logjammed at all positions prospect-wise except for 1st-line forward. We're not going to be able to develop all these guys, so we need to thin the ranks. If that means Sanheim or another d prospect has to go, so be it. But just trading D for F doesnt make too much sense when we've also got tons of forwards. I'd rather have picks. We need quality now, not quantity.

                    Remember the goal here is: Cup. I love what hexy has done in building a talent pipeline. His recycling of assets, maximizing assets through development, fixing the phantoms mess, all have been according to a grand plan. But you still need all-world players in their prime to win it all. We dont have enough right now... the fact that morgan frost might be a really great 2nd line winger one day isn't getting us there.

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                    • #50
                      hagg is way more than a 6/7. He's a solid 4 already in my book. very impressed by his game especially with such little nhl experience.

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